old hippy
Bantam
Life may suck, but it beats the alternative
Posts: 30
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Post by old hippy on Jan 21, 2008 21:12:56 GMT -5
A debate has broken out in our house---
Do goals scored in a shootout count for statistical purposes?
for example:
A player has 2 goals in regulation and then scores the deciding goal in a shootout. Does he get credit for a GWG? A hat trick? 3 points in the stats?
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Post by fangers on Jan 21, 2008 21:54:49 GMT -5
A debate has broken out in our house--- Do goals scored in a shootout count for statistical purposes? for example: A player has 2 goals in regulation and then scores the deciding goal in a shootout. Does he get credit for a GWG? A hat trick? 3 points in the stats? shootout goals do not count towards anything. Conversely, goalie shots/saves do not get counted. They do separately record shoot out stats (shooter X has scored on 2 of 4 shootout attmepts), but that's the extent of it |
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Post by Marc Foster on Jan 21, 2008 23:48:36 GMT -5
This has not always been true in the minor leagues (and perhaps juniors), but I don't know when the change took place. Previously, whoever scored the game winner in the shootout got credit for the goal and the GWG. Both goalies would get credit for a SOG and the loser took a goal against, with all this data counting towards the GAA and SavePct. I'd have to go back into final season files of various leagues to see when the change took place - just look for when a team's GWG = wins (with no goals scored by the bench). If I had to guess, the change happened when the NHL went to shootouts. UPDATE: I just took a look at the NAHL in Pointstreak, and they are STILL giving GWGs to the difference maker on the shootout winner. Take a look at these: www.pointstreak.com/prostatstext/NAHL/teamgamelog_13176_2025.txtGrant Everett has the GWG for 10/12... and has one other GWG on the season. Then in the team summary: pointstreak.com/prostats/teamplayerstats.html?teamid=13176&seasonid=2025He has two GWGs... |
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Post by fangers on Jan 22, 2008 7:41:20 GMT -5
wow, I stand corrected...I was only thinking of the NHL...
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Post by Marc Foster on Jan 22, 2008 12:33:26 GMT -5
Well, they actually got it right, for once.
I'm actually torn on what the lower levels should do, since if they changed the methodology they would not likely update the historical data to reflect the new methodology...
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Post by crosscheck on Jan 22, 2008 13:51:39 GMT -5
I think I have noticed on Poinstreak that the player who scores the GWG in the shootout is also awarded a goal in his stats. I am not sure if anyone has a policy on this or just the way Pointstreak does it.
As I look closely, the NAHL does it that way as does the CSHL.
However, the USHL does not give the player a goal in their stats if he scored the GWG of the shootout.
Interesting. Marc might have a nervous breakdown about this one.
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Post by Marc Foster on Jan 22, 2008 14:27:33 GMT -5
However, the USHL does not give the player a goal in their stats if he scored the GWG of the shootout. Interesting. Marc might have a nervous breakdown about this one. Well, where I'm having an issue is trying to get access to PS's text data for the USHL. They have it password protected, and Jon Garver doesn't know why (okay Jon, if you don't have a reason, tell them to turn off the security!). If I had the text data it would be really easy to tell if the USHL does count SO's in GWG, and if not, when they changed. |
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Post by CleverCat on Jan 22, 2008 15:27:50 GMT -5
..well this outta keep Marc busy for the day.  |
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Ryan
Mite
I have many leather bound books and my house smells of rich mahogany.
Posts: 5
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Post by Ryan on Jan 22, 2008 20:02:37 GMT -5
It looks like the USHL makes note of the GWG scored in the shootout, but does not give them credit. Sioux City's first game, Stephane Da Costa scored the winner in the shootout. Text stats give him credit, but if you check the stats, he is at 0 GWG. Box score of game (does not show who scored GWG): pointstreak.com/prostats/boxscore.html?gameid=580282 |
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Post by Marc Foster on Jan 22, 2008 20:24:46 GMT -5
..well this outta keep Marc busy for the day. Real work is keeping me busy enough, thanks (7:30 and still at office)... And as hard as it is to believe, the blog and this forum are not my most important hockey project at the moment... |
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Post by stlfan on Jan 23, 2008 8:55:53 GMT -5
;D ..well this outta keep Marc busy for the day. Real work is keeping me busy enough, thanks (7:30 and still at office)... And as hard as it is to believe, the blog and this forum are not my most important hockey project at the moment... SAY IT AIN'T SO!!! ;D I think in the CSHL they also get credit if they score the deciding goal in a shoot out. |
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Post by johnmeissner on Jan 23, 2008 22:46:29 GMT -5
As someone who DOES have access to Pointstreak's USHL text stats(neener, neener, neener! ;D), I can tell you that the USHL does NOT credit the scorer of a shootout winning goal with a goal in his season's total. The only thing they do statistically, is credit the winning team with an additional shot on goal. That extra shot does not go into the stats of the losing goaltender, nor does it go to the wining player who took the shot. It's a team stat, nothing more.
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Ryan
Mite
I have many leather bound books and my house smells of rich mahogany.
Posts: 5
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Post by Ryan on Jan 24, 2008 0:59:42 GMT -5
As someone who DOES have access to Pointstreak's USHL text stats(neener, neener, neener! ;D), I can tell you that the USHL does NOT credit the scorer of a shootout winning goal with a goal in his season's total. The only thing they do statistically, is credit the winning team with an additional shot on goal. That extra shot does not go into the stats of the losing goaltender, nor does it go to the wining player who took the shot. It's a team stat, nothing more. In the text stats, they do keep a note of which player scored the deciding goal in the shootout. But like you said, it's not counted towards their stats in any way. It's more of a note of it, I guess. Oh, and now Marc has access to them d**n text stats ;D |
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Post by simontemplar on Jan 26, 2008 14:47:20 GMT -5
They should not use the shoot out goals for anything other than deciding the extra point.
Imagine how screwed up player stats would become knocking down 12 extra SOG's every season.
I would bet Pat Kane and Sam Gagner probably scored another dozen goals last season.
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Post by Marc Foster on Jan 26, 2008 16:53:45 GMT -5
It's not that bad... the only goal that goes in is the deciding one, so if the SO goes 5-4 (or 3-2 in the NHL), only one goal (the last on the winning team) gets counted in the player stats. Even for a team with an incredible sniper, that's only adding 2-3 goals a season for that sniper. Not only does he have to score, it has to be the right one...
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