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Post by crosscheck on Dec 3, 2007 0:30:23 GMT -5
I've been wondering for some time, the cost involved in running a junior team and/or league. USHL type league. I ran through your numbers, used tax 990 for AWHL, NAHL and still couldn't get 750k for the league. I was able to get each team budget down 200k and league operating budget to 250k. What I'm I missing? What can be changed? etc. Thoughts? Each team's Goal - 20k in sponsorship or 300 $500 partnerships in owning the team League Goal - 100k in sponsorship Team Budget Head Coach Salary Competitive $40,000.00 Assistant Coach Salary Competitive $10,000.00 Assistant Coach Salary Competitive $10,000.00 Equipment Manager $10,000.00 Athletic Trainer Local EMT $9,600.00 Insurance $924.00 Practice Socks $67.00 Practice Jerseys $155.00 Game Jerseys $1,650.00 Game Socks $572.00 Warm Ups $1,500.00 Helmets $2,600.00 Pants $2,600.00 Sticks $7,200.00 Tape $160.00 Pucks $180.00 Water Bottles $75.00 Misc.Laces, Hardware, Tools $100.00 Team Bags $2,250.00 Gloves $1,540.00 Goalie Helmets $700.00 Goalie Pads $1,160.00 Goalie Blocker and Glove $620.00 Ice $1000 per week $24,000.00 Meal Allowance $20 per game $21,120.00 Housing Expenses 6 months x 150 $19,800.00 Hotel $- Skate Sharpner $475.00 Puck Bag $60.00 Travel $17,000.00 Coaching Misc. $100.00 First Aid Kit, Laundry $300.00 Season Fee $15,000.00 $201,508.00 Referees 108 league games 90 referee 75 per linesmen $25,920.00 Point Streak $1,200.00 Web Site $1,000.00 Commissioner Salary $50,000.00 Payroll Tax $10,000.00 Legal Fees $20,000.00 Accounting Fees $11,000.00 Supplies $2,000.00 Telephone $4,000.00 Postage $2,000.00 League Office $28,000.00 Hotels $17,064.00 Printing $2,700.00 Staff $75,000.00 DVD Player and TV $1,500.00 Ticket Package $750.00 $251,384.00 Team Income Partnerships 300 $500 $150,000.00 Programs $3 x 100 programs per game $7,200.00 Sponsorship $20,000.00 Tickets $172,800.00 $200,000.00 Here are a few things I think you have way out of wack. First, I don't think you will get a 3 man coaching staff for $60,000. Probably more than that. If they are full time employees their health care and benefits will be considerably higher. Insurance? That is probably way low from my business dealings. Sticks, that covers 3 sticks a kid. Now multiply that by about 30. Game jerseys? $1650?  ? You need 50 jerseys. Probably at least $75 a pop. Ice costs? You really able to buy ice at $125 per hour? Thats pretty good. $17,000 for travel? What are you doing, riding bikes? That is way low. I think you way underscore the costs of running a team. I am not involved with any team, just know the cost of doing business. I think you need more research to be honest, not that I really have a firm grasp, but I think I am closer to reality than you are. Good luck! |
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Post by Marc Foster on Dec 3, 2007 10:09:37 GMT -5
Crossy has already covered a lot of this, but I'll chime in. I tell folks that the NAHL costs about $650k a season, and the USHL $1.2M DP's budget didn't include any front office staff (who is selling tickets and sponsorships?).
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Post by crosscheck on Dec 3, 2007 15:38:49 GMT -5
A lot of coaches in D3, make 10k or less as assistant. Insurance is for the players and coaches under AAU. 1k a week for ice is a good deal. Practicing 3x a week, during the day or late at night. The jerseys would need to be doubled. This would be for a roster of 22. No Jr. A level team practices 3 times a week. 4 or 5 times for sure. Again, your travel expenses are ridiculously low. Employee benefits, Even your tape bid is low probably by several hundred dollars. Meal allowances? You need to feed the players every day you are on the road. I think that too is way off. I think you are at least several hundred thousand dollars off on what it takes. I am sure others have more insight than me, so lets here it from someone in the know. |
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Dad
Squirt
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Post by Dad on Dec 3, 2007 19:45:19 GMT -5
I've been wondering for some time, the cost involved in running a junior team and/or league. USHL type league. I ran through your numbers, used tax 990 for AWHL, NAHL and still couldn't get 750k for the league. I was able to get each team budget down 200k and league operating budget to 250k. What I'm I missing? What can be changed? etc. Thoughts? Darren, I cannot quote specifics since most of my info is from private sources, but I agree with Marc & Crosscheck. Even conservative spending will get you into at least .5 Million and probably somewhat more to sustain a successful organization. Add to this if you go deep into playoffs, AND if you hit Nats, pony up to the bar & turn the wallet upside down and shake until the moths fly out. |
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Dad
Squirt
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Post by Dad on Dec 3, 2007 20:04:43 GMT -5
A lot of coaches in D3, make 10k or less as assistant. Insurance is for the players and coaches under AAU. 1k a week for ice is a good deal. Practicing 3x a week, during the day or late at night. The jerseys would need to be doubled. This would be for a roster of 22. Sorry, I should have added this to the other post. I am taking the stance Jr Hockey for the purposes of this discussion is going to be governed by USAH, not the AAU. I would equate trying to compare the two as apples to tangellos. Comparing USAH to D3 would be akin to Golden Delicious / Pineapple. All good stuff, but decidedly different. The D3 teams I am familiar with are practicing 4 or more times per week. Jr coaches usually make a bit more considering a 55+ game schedule as opposed to a 30 something game season. I believe most (not all) Jr teams practice afternoon or evening (as opposed to night) as many players need to go to school or work. |
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Post by sonofzam on Dec 3, 2007 23:25:51 GMT -5
$500K is a good starting point for NAHL. It is really difficult to do a "one size fits all" budget, PB. Up north, you may be able to get ice for $125. In the south, you will pay $300 per hour. Most practices last more tha one hour. With games, the rink has to block out 5-6 hours. Some teams pay over $100K for practice and game ice. Also, while you may be able to get good assistants for 10K in some markets, you willl have to pay ovr $30 in other areas. It all depends on the cost of living. This is actually a great exercise. Many teams do over-spend (or underspend...either negatively affects the bottom line). Most teams I have seen fail overestimate revenue and underestimate expenses. Maybe we should require business degrees for the coaches!  |
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old hippy
Bantam
Life may suck, but it beats the alternative
Posts: 30
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Post by old hippy on Dec 5, 2007 21:10:23 GMT -5
Allow me to chime in. In Wichita Falls, (NAHL) the Wildcats play in a multi-purpose coliseum. Several times a year the team is forced to travel to Oklahoma City( 120 miles or so) by bus to practice.
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Dad
Squirt
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Post by Dad on Dec 6, 2007 17:54:35 GMT -5
The rule is (I believe) the NAHL provides NO housing assistance at home. Players are responsible for their own billet costs. Transportation, lodging and two meals a day are provided on the road.
The USHL provides virtually all necessary livng expenses (billet, meals and gear) except personal spending cash, I think.
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Dad
Squirt
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Post by Dad on Dec 8, 2007 12:35:20 GMT -5
That question is one keeping most Jr. franchise owners awake at night. Jr. teams are historically awash with ink from white to pink with a liberal splattering of red. Sponsorship, fund raisers, donations and booster club activities help to cover the shortfall. Otherwise, the owners dig a bit deeper. Owning a Jr. A TII team is not considered a Blu-Chip investment, more a labor of love.  ;D |
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Post by gbpuckfan on Dec 10, 2007 18:24:49 GMT -5
Head coach $40,000? That pays for not quite half a season for the head coach in GB, Lincoln, Omaha and, I'm betting, Waterloo. ... and then...
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Post by gbpuckfan on Dec 10, 2007 22:04:14 GMT -5
A few more "reviews"...
An assistant coach is going to make at least $20-30,000. Same for the scout. GB does not have 2 assistants, currently. The good news is the trainer costs are covered by a sponsor.
The USHL billet is $200 per month (and hasn't been raised in 8 years, BTW). 24 kids. Sept through March is 7 months. $33,600.
Hotel. GB will likely have 20 hotel nights, not including preseason tourney. At 4 kids per room, that's 6 rooms, plus one each for the coaches and trainer and driver. Let's say $80 per room - and that's really conservative once you figure in taxes, etc - that's at least $14,400.
GB pays about $5,000 per game rent for the arena per game. That's games - not practice. That's $150,000. Good news is I don't think it has to pay office rental.
Game ops staff members (goal judges, announcer, cameramen, scorers, etc.) make, say $25 per game. 12-15 of those over the season is another $10,000.
GB spends several hundreds of thousands of dollars per year bus costs. I think I was once told $200,000 and that was a few years ago.
I don't know about the equipment expenses. GB's booster club used to spend $2,500 per year just on warmups (sweats, seatshirt, shorts, T-shirt) for the team.
Radio. GB has to pay to be on the radio. That's why they dropped home games this year. Guessing it's at least $10,000 per year. That, plus other advertising (including newspaper, pocket schedules, team posters, etc...) is several thousand more.
On the revenue side, many of GB's sponsorships cost at least $2,000. But the team also gives away programs, so no revenue there.
Guessing your ticket revenue is low. With season ticket holder discounts, other promotions, etc, I'm guessing GB averages about $8 revenue per ticket, avg. 3000 per game = about $720,000.
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Post by coachwalt on Dec 21, 2007 9:32:00 GMT -5
I see a lot of things that glare "cheap" in that budget. The biggest thing is ice cost of $1000 per week. That should get you about 4 hours of ice. The other MAJOR thing is the coaches salary. There are so many other little things that look extremely LOW, for example our team goes through about $25 worth of tape per week. That adds up to a lot more than your budget. The same with water bottles, etc. You might want to sharpen your pencil (and open your wallet) and give that budget a longer harder look.
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Post by Marc Foster on Dec 21, 2007 16:07:05 GMT -5
I guess it's more expensive if you coach the Swedish Torpedo *ducks*...
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Post by coachwalt on Dec 21, 2007 17:27:18 GMT -5
Actually it's more expensive when you take 17 day road trips through the NAHL and then play 74 of your season's 84 games on the road...........
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Post by Marc Foster on Dec 22, 2007 8:35:17 GMT -5
Didn't you guys get up into NorPac territory as well?
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Post by coachwalt on Dec 22, 2007 10:52:39 GMT -5
We went as far northwest as Bismarck. By the end of this season our team will have played a team from every Junior A and B league in the US except the Norpac and USHL. We have also played 3 OPJHL teams and teams from three different Juvenille AAA leagues in Ontario as well as 4 ACHA D1 teams. It's been an awesome experience.
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Post by Marc Foster on Dec 22, 2007 12:50:22 GMT -5
Okay, for some reason (not to cause a hushed silence or anything) I had it in my mind you guys went to Helena.
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Post by coachwalt on Dec 22, 2007 19:51:20 GMT -5
Hey the season is not not over yet...... it could happen, but I doubt it. We have a lot of trips coming up. Toronto next week then the EJ Showcase, Northwoods Prep Showcase, CHA All-Star Weekend and a long ride to San Antonio to play the Diablos of the WSHL. We also have a few games with some AJ teams in between.
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old hippy
Bantam
Life may suck, but it beats the alternative
Posts: 30
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Post by old hippy on Dec 23, 2007 22:03:19 GMT -5
Dumb question--- what team are you with?
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Post by Marc Foster on Dec 23, 2007 22:28:23 GMT -5
Walt's with the Hampton Roads Whalers. They're the indy team that Topeka and some others played at the start of the season. www.whalerhockey.com/Walt and I actually go back a ways... before either of us were involved in junior hockey... |
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old hippy
Bantam
Life may suck, but it beats the alternative
Posts: 30
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Post by old hippy on Dec 24, 2007 19:39:01 GMT -5
OK-- thanks
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? You need 50 jerseys. Probably at least $75 a pop. 
